I know that at least some of you guys have been able to get your hands on a copy of the game. I played for about 10 hours last night and overall I'm impressed, but there are some serious issues with this game.

Graphics
The graphics on-track and with the cars themselves are superb. Newer car models with LED taillights look very accurate, wheels have nice depth, etc. Tracks are highly detailed (Nurburgring). Backdrops and scenery, however, left me a little disappointed. Don't get me wrong, it looks better than most games, but you have to set the bar extremely high due to the inexcusable delays. That's the rub - you start developing a game 4 years ago and your 3D engine is bound to show it's age in some respects. I've experienced a very annoying bug at all races on track SSR5. At the beginning of a race the screen appears to be vertically blurred by about 5 pixels. This effect has gone away a few seconds after the start of the race, but it is very annoying nonetheless. I wonder if this is related to the issue of one of our users being unable to use his 50" DLP HDTV with GT4?

Cars
There are too many cars in this game. I love variety, but I don't need the high number of sub-sub-sub compacts and cars from the 1800's. I also don't need to see 20 variations of the same car. Look at Skylines - you have multiple versions of R32, R33, etc. with very little variation. How about getting licensing from Lamborghini and Ferrari instead of giving me Skylines from the 1950's? Nobody but the most diehard of Datsun fans is going to give a crap, much less spend time racing and tuning one outside any mandatory events.

Racing
The sheer number of tracks and race types is unprecedented. It's going to take a while to inventory everything. I think it's stupid that you have to pay small amounts of Credits to test your car out on the test track though. The racing engine is familiar but definitely has some new nuances. I personally feel the braking is inaccurate on some cars. I've driven both the G35 Coupe and 350Z IRL. I tried them out and the G35's brakes are definitely spongier than IRL. Of course, the G35 I drove had Brembo brakes which I believe was an option. If you want to go really slow, leave the ASM on your cars turned on. If you want to have fun and be challenged by the potential power of a car, turn it off. I'm sure I'll have a more definite opinion on this as I play the game more. The fact that you can skip B and A licenses and get 100k from your GT3 save is cool. You're missing out on a couple prize cars though. The Coffee Break portion of the license tests is fun. A-Spec points -- I like the idea of rewarding people who race within a car class. Problem is, I think you can spam A-Spec points by repeatedly finishing "Racing Missions". I'm going to check this out again though. If that's the case, there's no point for A-Spec points in a community setting as they'e not a real indicator of racing skill. B-Spec -- I won't be using it save for maybe an endurance race that no person with a normal life would have time to finish. Photo Mode - who really cares? The memory requirements of storing photos on a PS2 memory card are prohibitive, let alone the fact that the GT4 save takes 1.4Mb on it's own. How many of you shutterbugs plan on taking photos and printing them out? I feel PD's time could have been much better spent enabling online play.

Tuning
GT4 again sets the bar when it comes to tuning variety. A couple things I noticed were the addition of the "Tuner Village" where you can buy parts for some of your cars. AFAIK, parts purchased from tuners have the same performance as parts purchased from your local car dealer. I noticed the addition of a Ballast, which will be really cool for those unevenly distributed cars. ASM has been split between Understeer and Oversteer. Strengthening torsional rigidity has been added, along with an associated option for longevity that I have yet to fully explore. I already noticed the availability of a Supercharger on more cars than in GT3 - this is cool. Lower power motors will definitely benefit from this vs. a Stage 2/3 turbo. I also noticed that Turbo, N/A Tune and Supercharger are all mutually exclusive. I can see why to a point on the N/A Tune vs. Turbo side, but why would I not be able to N/A Tune and then apply a Supercharger? Tires are split into more categories - Normal, Sports and Racing. The two former have three types each and the latter has five. Tire wear appears to be *on* in all races now. Additionally, I noticed that Snow and Dirt tires are now split out on their own.

Well, that's about all I have for now. I am beginning to take stock of all the differences and will have to put the game away at some point to begin the work ahead for upgrading GTVault.

Kerr

Kerr,
If you were speaking of me and my HDTV , when I have raced that track, it is very blurry & jerky just before the race starts , but as soon as the race starts it clears up. It is very annoying for sure . almost every race I start has a tad bit of blurryness to it just before the race starts.

I agree with you on the over abundance of the same car when there are other exoctics out there old & new that would of made my juices flow !

Over all I think your review is pretty much spot on . Good job as usual !!


SprayTech

yes VIVA FUMES!!!

GT4 is the best driving and racing game ever. Nothing compares to it.

Nevertheless, it could easily have been even better, if only the developers had a different mindset when they developed that massive 720-strong car list they are so proud of. If they had less of an obsession with Japanese cars and even a little bit of respect for race series that don't feature Japanese cars or Japanese engines, imagine how much more interesting GT4 could have been. Please consider the following:

From the official Sony GT4 web site -

"Gran Turismo 4 is a journey to discover cars - the history of the automobile and its evolution to modern day vehicles. From the Model T Ford to today's state-of-the-art Formula 1 racers, the vast expanse of automotive racing is at your fingertips."

Some corrections are needed to that paragraph. It should read:

"Gran Turismo 4 is a journey to discover Japanese cars and a few others - the history of the Japanese automobile industry and its evolution to being really good at producing countless variations of the same car. From the Model T Ford to today's state-of-the-art Formula 1 racers, a comprehensive study of the tight little world of the JGTC series and a cursory, perfunctory, disrespectful glance at all the other car racing that has ever taken place is at your fingertips."

For me, it's all about truth in advertising. We aren't getting what Sony said we were going to get. They really need to edit that paragraph on their site. Permit me to cite a few specific examples to illustrate why:

The North American release car list contains, as best as I can tell after two counts, the following by-nation breakdown:

451 Japanese

90 German

62 American

40 British

29 Italian

29 French

5 Australian

5 Korean

2 Swedish

1 Belgian

1 Dutch

1 Spanish

0 Brazilian

The list includes:

53 Skylines

25 NSXs

21 Lancers

19 Imprezas

17 RX-7s

13 Celicas

13 Silvias

11 Miatas

Is this "the history of the automobile" or is it "the history of the automobile from the point of view of a few guys who have a lot of very good, close friends in the Japanese automobile industry"? It's easy to visualize, isn't it? One of Kazunori Yamauchi's buddies says "Hey Kaz, do you think you could put a __________ (fill in the blank) in GT4? I had a dark blue one for a couple of years and I loved that car." Of course Kaz replies: "Oh, sure. I can do that for you." How else can you explain the presence of a lot of the cars that are on this list? This would explain the following, as well:

There 53 Skylines, but just three Mustangs and two Jaguar XKRs.

There are as many cars from "Amuse" as there are Aston-Martins. (Amuse? Amuse!?!?)

There are 21 Lancers, but no Saabs whatsoever.

There are 25 NSX variants, but only two Volvos.

There are 35 Mazda two-seat sports cars, but just one Triumph, and not one of the old MG two-seaters.

There are 12 Daihatsus, but not one Cadillac production car. The XLR, STS, CTS, and CTS-V aren't there.

There are 11 Suzukis, but not one Rolls-Royce (or Bentley production car).

There are 9 variations of the Subaru Legacy, but just one Jaguar sedan.

Personally, the game's treatment of the many racing series that are going on around the world is the most infuriating of all. Sony claims "the vast expanse of automobile racing is at your fingertips". Not quite. Here's what we're really getting:

23 JGTC (All-Japan GT Championship) cars

3 from the FIA World GT Championship, and all three of them are warm-overs from GT3. (PD couldn't even be bothered with updating the paint job on the C5R. That's just disrespect, folks, plain and simple.)

1 from the Australian V8 Supercar series, and even that one's a leftover from GT3.

0 from the Trans-Am series (Check out those bad boys at http://www.trans-amseries.com/Event/Photos.asp . Click on the 2004 events on the right for lots more. Ferocious Corvettes, Jags, and Mustangs. Maybe that's why they aren't in GT4.)

0 from the American Le Mans series.

0 from the British Touring Car Championship

0 from the SCCA SPEED GT series

0 from the Grand American series

1 from the great old Can-Am series, and they had to pick the freak: The Chaparral sucker car that entered (and failed to finish) just three races.

Thank heaven they have a little respect for the German Touring Car Championship. At least we get a fair selection of those nice DTM cars. And its a good thing the Japanese manufacturers made so many attempts at winning the Le Mans 24-hour (pulling it off just once), or we wouldn't have many Prototypes to work with.

We could go on and on, couldn't we? The cars that are left off this list is as amazing as the sheer, overwhelming number that is on it. My point is that PD is not delivering on their promise. After this absurdly long wait, we deserve better than this. Yeah, yeah, all us fanboys should be oh, so grateful that the PD guys have been so gracious as to give us all these cars. Yeah, yeah: Japanese cars are great. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Fact is, this is a self-indulgent list. The developers put in the cars they grew up with, see every day, own, drive, and know very well. They packed the list with the cars they love. They're self-indulgent to the point of it being bad for their business. More non-Japanese cars would have to help sales in the global market, but even that is not motivation enough for them to throw a few more in.

The developers have filled the list with cars they've owned, their friends' cars, their girlfriends' cars, their parents' cars, their children's cars, their co-workers' cars, their neighbors' cars, and their wives' cars. They knew they could get away with it because GT4 will sell tens of millions of copies no matter what cars are in it. The point is that they put in what they wanted, not what we paying customers all over the world wanted.

Yeah, you bet I'm steamed about it. I expected better. A lot of other people did, too.

______________________


Finally, bear with me a little:


It's easy to imagine the following conversations going on last year in the offices of Polyphony Digital, between Kazunori Yamauchi and members of his development team:

PD Dev: "Hey Kaz-san, I can update the C5R paint job for GT4 in a few hours. Shall I go ahead?"

Kaz: "You want to change the yellow-and-white paint scheme from the 2000 version, when it lost at Le Mans, to the all-yellow version like when it finished first and second in the Le Mans GTS class three out of the last four years?"

PD Dev: "Yeah, exactly! Nothin' to it. I can tweak the power and update the handling a little, too."

Kaz: "You do realize that we're talking about a Chevrolet here, don't you?"

PD Dev: "Oh, yeah. It is, isn't it? Sorry. What was I thinking?"


And maybe something like this transpired:

PD Dev: "Hey Kaz, now that we're done with the Saleen S7, I was just thinking that I can clone it into the S7R very easily."

Kaz: "The S7R race car, the one that's winning FIA World GT Championship races and giving the Maranellos all kinds of competition everywhere they run into each other?"

PD Dev: "You bet. We can whip up one for GT4 in no time at all."

Kaz: "Where are Saleens made?"

PD Dev: "Irvine, California"

Kaz: "What country is Irvine in?"

PD Dev: "Oh, geez! I forgot! Forgive me, boss. It won't happen again."

Kaz: "Let's hope it doesn't."

______________________

Glad to be back. I guess everyone was waiting for GT4. I was the first in line yesterday at Gamespot. At first, I was a little reluctant regarding the new GT4. After all, waiting for two years, and Sony yelling “Here comes the Wolf” every now and then. Some people just were a little frustrated about all the delays. But at last, here it is. Sometimes get to their max, at it is a little hard to make an encore. But since I started at 3:00 PM to 1:00 AM playing with my son. I have some good comments and some bad comments.
First of all, I don't like the very large view of all the stuff it has. Also, it will get a little getting use to the constant left and right up and down. On a big screen. After a while, it will make you dizzy, and even noshes. Their is lot of information zing zaging around the [lets call it a Parking Lot PL] PL. Graphics are like GT3. A little improvement regarding the background. Some people moving and cheering you on. But the big jump is in the setting of the cars. The feel of a well tuned car is awesome. The sound is cool to. I, for instance bought a RX7 RS. At first it was hard to control, didn't brake well. Was like lumpy on the road. But like always, once you start to invest it. It becomes the car to beat. One cool aspect, it changes the sound as you install a better muffler. The NOS is great. But watch out for that next curve. If you become addicted to NOS. You will be visiting the cliffs, or dirt, must and sand pits. Many companies like HKS, Blitz, Mines Spoon and others promote their produces also, cool.

I think I have already a very good suspension tunes on the RX7. As soon as I fined tune it, I'll posted here. Keep in touch.

well got the game yesterday and must say i am with the rest of you guys on first impressions! boy a lot of japanese cars! got the same blurry screen too i was wondering if it was an effect they desired like when u rearend another car your vision blurs? i dont know like maybe the wet kicks up enough spray to blur your vision? oh well i hope it gets better at least theres a ton of stuff to explore. outta keep me busy for awhile. well saw a few american cars during races that arnt listed in the showrooms so maybe there are a few more than first thought, the taurus is the one i remember, who the heck wants a taurus anyways! finding the blurry glitch in alotta races tho! if i remember right didnt the graphics on gt3 sharpen up after a certain percentage was completed? i seem to remember getting to a certain milestone that improved the color and such. oh btw spraytech, did u see the video setting for hdtv?, i believe it was in options

man o man are you right on about these brakes i been rollin the 05 mustang and its got 4 wheel disc brakes and wont stop at all. we were lookin at them on my co-workers yesterday and they are 15 inches in the front and 13 in the rear and his ride stops good with no chirping at all because of the anti locks. total contradiction to the car in the game. also the game mustang seemed to lack power stock. where as his real stang without exaust upgrades or chipping is a force to be reckoned with. as i was just a passenger i cannot give you my feelings as a driver but ill tell you what that car put me into my seat! the PD stang just didnt have the same feeling. ya ya ya i know its just a game how can it feel like a real car. but some of the old ones i thought were good intrepatations.

made some expensive mistakes tuning the stang. bought supersofts and havnt been able to use them yet. bought racing exhaust, big mistake the engine wasnt built past stage 1, so i thought more air port and polish will do the trick! nope still no back pressure. so i go get a sports exhaust, tighten it up a lil. nope still didnt fly, better, but not right you can hear it. so i go back to stock exhaust and this thing sounds right now and has power on the highends! ooops blew my 100,000 credits on sh*t i cant use yet damnit and i need a good front wheel drive car now!

Well I just picked up my copy of GT4 last night. I was busy with a research paper Wednesday and by the time I got home yesterday I was too busy to play it. So I fired it up this morning, ran a few arcade laps to get a feel for the steering and here is my impression so far.

First: In GT3 I loved Laguna Seca, now I found a track that I love even more. Nurburgring!

Second: I am not a “Gold” class license driver. I could get gold's if I tried but I could never see the point in going through that repetitive process. So what I am saying is that I don't worry about being the fastest, just getting it done. Keep this in mind as it sets the “mood” for my next statement/impression. That pace car is WAY to damn SLOW!

I won't touch the car list, I think it has been beat to death by now.

raced against a 2000 svt cobra. so i assume it will be available in used cars.

@Deadly_Lobo: I found an SVT for sale in the Used Cars II cars lot.

@-rob-: I agree that this is still worth it, especially the way the cars act in cornering and overall handling is just much better. I love this game and can live with the flaws.

I think everyone's comments have been spot on regarding the flaws of the game, and I would like to throw a different log on the fire. What is the deal with so many prize cars you cannot sell back? With the amount of money you have to invest into just one car, its inexcusable to be greeted with a half-sarcastic "We can't possibly put a value on this car, but you can get rid of it for nothing" message.

I don't like Japanese cars, and as was mentioned earlier, one or two bad tuning decisions early in the game while driving a non-Japanese car can be near fatal to your progress. The racing possibilities are scarce. I do love my M3 though. So how come no tuners for it, such as Hamman? Theres a whole section of the game devoted to companies I've never heard of, devoted to cars I don't care for.

Also, has anyone else noticed that the in car camera seems to be a little higher off the pavement this time around?

let's all not buy gt anymore until we get what we want!!! seriously. if pd wants to keep screwing around and not include a decent amount of cars from all over the planet, then screw them. i will not purchase the next gt in the series if they continue to diss the american scene by leaving out 'stangs, vette's, the v8 engine sound, and the like. who really needs 57 skylines (that's right, counted them all) that look and handle the same.

we already get that the 'line is a good car, but sheesh---this is going overboard. and for comparison, look at the supra. there are only four jgtc models plus three regulars for a total of seven cars. sure the calsonic was ruling until the tom's showed up, but that's no reason to leave out most of them. to add insult to injury, they also included all of the ugly supras and left out the pretty ones.


on the jgtc note, where the hell are the porsches, vipers, mclarens, moslers, 'vettes, diablos, and ferraris. sure they may not be able to get the "exotic" licence (maybe that's just another excuse), but if they could smuggle in the diablo gt jgtc in gt3, they sure as hell could've done it again. also, where's the mclaren brand???

also, why do the lm faction and the formula faction have to suffer as well??? there are hardly any lm or formula cars in the game, but yet we get alot of domestic (jap) bull!!! i'm not going to even start with the 'stang!!!


also, what's up with the concept bull??? you win a car, but you can't sell it or race it because it's too "special" to leave the garage. in fact, the mazda mazdaspeed 6 is so special that it dowsn't have a drivetrain. don't believe me, then check out the car yourself. i have over twenty different concepts in my garage and not one can be sold or used ('cept for a few of course). in order to get rid of them i have to give them away like if this is a charity bazaar or something.


one thing that really gets on my nerves is the one car bullshit!!! why include a manufacturer in the game and only give them one car---exactly what purpose does that serve??? the tuning shops are a waste of time and space because 1), the parts are the same price, 2), you don't receive any decals to let anyone know where you tuned the car, and 3), there are no kits to fully accessorize you ride. even the wings in the auto shop are lame.



finally, there aren't enough real world tracks.


ok, that's enough ranting for now (though i haven't covered all of the bull) but you should get the point. maybe if we hadn't bought gt4, then they would've gotten the message.





suprafly out.............................